Cheap(er) 24 megapixel full-frame DSLR on its way

[Costas L]

Looks like Sony will soon be unveiling a cheaper version of the A900 to be called the A850

Details are available on the engadget site with key differences to the A900 being
only three FPS and a smaller 98% coverage viewfinder

All the other features of the A900 seem to be there so maybe uses the same sensor, now we just need a price to see if this is going to take significant market share from Nikon and Canon.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/01/sony ... port-site/

[Costas L]

This looks like an excellent camera, could be twice the pixel count of my 5D MkI at a lower price. Probably geared for a September release

Some specs from the manual
Effective pixel number of camera Approx. 24 610 000 pixels
SteadyShot - System Sensor-Shift mechanism; Compensation capability Approximately 2.5 to 4 EV decrease in shutter speed
Anti-Dust - System Charge protection coating on Low-Pass Filter and image sensor-Shift mechanism
AF 9 points and 10 supplementary ranging points
ISO 100 to 6400
LCD monitor - 921 600 (640 × 3 (RGB) ×480) dots with backlighting
Weight Approx.850 g (1 lb 14 oz), without batteries and memory card

[Costas L]

Good analysis of the A850 at the site linked below.

According to this article, the A850 could deliver better image quality than the A900 and could be on par with the Nikon implementation of that sensor. So could see an A950 shortly as well ~
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2009/08/0 ... -900-body/

[Kevgermany]

I wish,.,,,,

[jrhilton]

This looks like an excellent camera, could be twice the pixel count of my 5D MkI at a lower price. Probably geared for a September release

Some specs from the manual
Effective pixel number of camera Approx. 24 610 000 pixels
SteadyShot - System Sensor-Shift mechanism; Compensation capability Approximately 2.5 to 4 EV decrease in shutter speed
Anti-Dust - System Charge protection coating on Low-Pass Filter and image sensor-Shift mechanism
AF 9 points and 10 supplementary ranging points
ISO 100 to 6400
LCD monitor - 921 600 (640 × 3 (RGB) ×480) dots with backlighting
Weight Approx.850 g (1 lb 14 oz), without batteries and memory card

What is the sensor cleaning technology like on Sony cameras? Thats my main gripe with high MP sensors, dust is a real killer on my 5D mk1, It can look clean at F5 but at F22 you can be in for a shock. Using a zoom lens doesn't help things either!

Also how does the dynamic range compare to competing camers?

I'm glad to see a lot more competition in this area now.

[Costas L]

.... Also how does the dynamic range compare to competing camers?
I'm glad to see a lot more competition in this area now.

The Sony A900 is the dynamic range king according to the DpReview they did on it. Scored 9.4 EV compared with 8.6 EV (Nikon D3X and 5D Mk II) for the competition. No idea about sensor cleaning but I am sure it helps reduce some of the dust that ends up on the sensor.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page24.asp

Looks like the competition could end up chasing Sony from 2010 as far as full frame camera bodies go. However Sony needs more "top notch" lenses to go with those bodies. Keep in mind that 24 megapixels is well past what 100 ASA colour negative film could deliver which makes me wonder whether any of my old Minolta lenses would suffice.

[jrhilton]

.... Also how does the dynamic range compare to competing camers?
I'm glad to see a lot more competition in this area now.

The Sony A900 is the dynamic range king according to the DpReview they did on it. Scored 9.4 EV compared with 8.6 EV (Nikon D3X and 5D Mk II) for the competition. No idea about sensor cleaning but I am sure it helps reduce some of the dust that ends up on the sensor.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page24.asp

Looks like the competition could end up chasing Sony from 2010 as far as full frame camera bodies go. However Sony needs more "top notch" lenses to go with those bodies. Keep in mind that 24 megapixels is well past what 100 ASA colour negative film could deliver which makes me wonder whether any of my old Minolta lenses would suffice.

Costas that was a good review by dpreview, good spot, it is interesting how they state the noise over 400 ISO is high, when ISO400 on my last two Canon DSLRs has been very clean to be honest (granted lower pixl density on my previous EOS 1d mk2 and current 5d, but these are designs that are moe than 4 years old now, so surley Sony could match at 400 ISO these days). The dynamic range of the camera is impressive, though I am surprised that the 5D is 8.2 stops, I didn't realise or think it was that high, you certainly learn something new every day! I was thinking that it was bottom end of 6 to 7 stops......

You are quite right, 24mp is way above what 35mm 100 ASA colour neg film can achieve, and I agree about lenses too.You need the best to get the most out of the sensor. A few manafactures seem to make lenses for Sony, be it Fujinon, Zeiss, etc, and that is possibly what is going to let the camera down. Both Fujinon and Zeiss make some very good lenses for cinema and high end HD cameras, but they cost as much as a new car. I'm not seeing too many lenses that are inline with Canon's "L" series for example, at comparable prices, am I missing some here? They all look like they would break if you dropped them too!

Also, Canon have actully been quite loyal to their customers, as they have had their EF mount for years and years now, so if you buy a lens you can be pretty sure that it will work on your next camera too. I don't trust Sony as much, I wouldn't feel as happy spending thousands on lots of Sony lenses, having had experience of some of their pro video cameras over the years, they like to change things much more often! Buying a DSLR is buying into a whole system, at a considerable cost, so concerns like this are a big issue in my opinion. That is why you don't see too many people switching between Canon and Nikon often due to the investment and cost involved.

[jo-1]

. . . Looks like Sony will soon be unveiling a cheaper version of the A900 to be called the A850 . . .

let's hope it is better then its predecessor the A900.

For the time being i have troubles in judging what Sony is really doing? Do they suffer from a very low budget or do they have less encouraged engineers compare to Nikon. It seems Nikon can do so much more with the same sensor - I wonder whether Sony gets the "B" quality and Nkon get's the "A" quality grade of the sensor production?

If this will happen again with the D700x and the A850 it will be a disaster for Sony's camera production - only people on a budget will get those cameras but I may be mistaken and Sony offers a better package though many lenses are missing in their portfolio.

I'd love to see a third big competitor to put pressure on both Nikon and CANON. The Nikon lenses have already motivated CANON to go far beyond all other vendors in terms of Tilt and Shift Lenses - if Sony would bring out a good affordable entry level FF body both others are forced to counter strike (good for us all)

Crop sized cameras will stay in the market for a very long time but on the long run FF bodies might be the choice of DSLR users - the lower market will degrade in price rapidly and thus DSLRs might get outmoded by other cheaper concepts like 3/4ths or similar approaches.

Let's cross fingers and hope or a good Sony 2nd try (I was personally hoping for a model above the A900 with some 30 MPIxel and the ISO sensitivity of the D700 at the price point o the 5D II)

[Costas L]

.... Let's cross fingers and hope or a good Sony 2nd try (I was personally hoping for a model above the A900 with some 30 MPIxel and the ISO sensitivity of the D700 at the price point o the 5D II)

Perhaps the difference in how Nikon and Sony use the same sensor is factored into the price of those cameras

For Sony to be using the A900 sensor in a lower priced body probably means they have a new sensor and body for an A900 replacement in the wings otherwise the A850 will cannibalise the A900/top of the range sales. Will not be in the A950, but would not be surprised to see a 30+ Megapixel 35mm FF sensor from Sony in 12 months or so. The way these things tend to move up by a factor of 1.5 means could even be 36 Megapixels although that must start to hit dynamic range and noise issues.

[paul holder]

will we see the demise of the exspensive lenses ,asthe computive power of the camera increases .will you be able to take any old image be it out of focus to dark to light and the computer sorts it out .all the close up , macro, zoom done inside the camera

[Costas L]

certainly the direction many compacts are headed Paul

With DSLR, as the megapixels increase, so does the point at which diffraction sets in so the quest becomes development of lenses which work well at wide apertures. Probably means more expensive heavy lenses on the horizon which will not suit me too well as someone who travels light

[jo-1]

certainly the direction many compacts are headed Paul

With DSLR, as the megapixels increase, so does the point at which diffraction sets in so the quest becomes development of lenses which work well at wide apertures. Probably means more expensive heavy lenses on the horizon which will not suit me too well as someone who travels light

what about concentrating on few excellent lenses that cover 80 % instead of many medicore that cover 98 % ??

I was always wondering who buys the 18-250 mm lenses - for me a good 17 mm, 35 mm and 70-200 mm is all I'll ever need to take good shots (for my style)

Travelling light is no problem even with 50 MPixel and appropriate lenses!

There are also rumors that the Canon sensor might be the next basis for Leica M9 - who knows - I would nor be surprised if we see some compact (lens limited) point and shoots with 2x or 3x Megapixel soon and guess what? The Leica lenses would perfectly fit the quality constraints you could have. I never needed 1x till 2xx mm lenses - I always wondered who buys good cameras and is willing to accept poor lenses - even with the early 6 MPixel DSLRs lenses were improtant - now it only gets more obvious since we reach for some wave lengths the diffraction limit.

There is a very nice essay here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/not-so-fast.shtml

Well, I have a PhD in physics, and think of myself as something of an expert on the topic. But I expect that I will buy a 100 megapixel sensor camera some day (although likely not for a few years).

Here is why. Diffraction is a problem, but there are a bunch of reasons that pixel counts will continue to rise.

The first is that we all have fast lenses. The diffraction limited aperture for 100 megapixels / 35mm full frame size is f/4.6 , 50 megapixel is f/6.4 . There are plenty of lenses where a 50 or 100 megapixel sensor will show some benefit. Indeed most macro lenses work well open. So do many super-telephotos like 300mm f/2.8 or 600mm f/4 – they are typically used wide open where there would be no problem with a 50 to 100 megapixel sensors.

I 2nd that - personally I will be one of the first for the successor of the 5D II with maybe 30 MPixel - the lenses I own and intended to buy will probably be good enough - and my 70-200 has it's sweet spot at f/5.6 other lenses maybe at f/4.0 - let's wait and see what the big three have to offer