Scanning black and white negatives with the Epson 4990

[JERRY]

Have been fairly successful in scanning slides. Today was my first attempt at black and white negatives. Totally non successful. Ending up with a black screen every time. Dad was a photographer in his day and all his weddings, ect were done with a press camera. We have thousands of negatives, some of which we would like to convert to digital format. I think I have tried every setting to get something, but nothing has been the results. Just a totally black box in Photoshop. Please can someone give me some detailed settings for negatives with the 4990. I would be deeply appreciative. Is the white matt supposed to be removed fron the top of the lid or does it remain? I have the holders of varying size and have approx a 4x5 negative. I am at a standstill. Appreciatively,

JERRY

[grantp]

Jerry,

I managed to get some pretty good scans with my 4990 from some rather contrast lacking 6x6 cm negatives.

The white mat must be removed to allow the top light box to function when scanning negatives and slides.

I tend to use the Epson Scan software and set it to Black and White scans.

After that what you do with them tends to depend on what the negatives offer and maybe what software you have available for processing after the scan.

And finally (for now), how you want them to look!

The film holder may or may not work for you but try it first.

I found my old negatives seemed to confuse it and it got the framing wrong it I tried automatic. In the end I scanned directly from the glass and marked out the 'marquee' for the area to be scanned my defining them manually. but that is maybe for a later point, for now we need to just get something scanned for you that does not result in a black file!

HTH.


Grant

[bez]

As Grant says you must remove the white mat in the lid (which is for reflective scans only) for ALL types of film, to allow the light in the lid to shine through.

You should use the film holders if you can, as they hold the film at the correct height from the glass bed.
If you have an unusual size (eg half plate) you can try putting it directly on the glass, but it’s better to raise the emulsion layer with shims to the same height as it would be in a film holder.

Epson Scan software is as good as most, although it takes a little practice to get maximum detail out of the negs. A good starting point is to look at the histogram preview and make sure you aren’t clipping the highlights or shadows, by opening out the sliders, then fixing it in Photoshop.
All scans will need sharpening.

Let us know if you need more help...

[JERRY]

Thanks fellows. Still totally black.
I am in professional mode.
Film with film holder
Black & white negative film
8 bit grey scale
Scan quality best
size 5.5 x4
Can't see any other settings that would have any effect. Perhaps you can and appreciate your time and effort
Jerry

[grantp]

Jerry,

Basic stuff. I'm assuming you can use the 'ordinary' recflective scanner successfully?

Do you see the blue light moving along the top when scanning films?

Have you checked the connections between the top section and the bottom section? Mine played up a few weeks ago when this worked a little loose without it becoming obvious.

Have you checked that the film holder(s) are correctly positioned? They have marks on them to code what they are supposed to be and so instruct the software.

If yes to all the above, try a negative lying on the glass without a holder and see what happens. Don't use a good one for this test - it will not be harmful but there is no point in too frequent handling of ''best' negs.

If all that fails, unplug from the mains for a couple of minutes and then reconnect. If no better, reboot computer with scanner disconnected and then plug it in - I assume you are using USB? Or maybe swith on the scanner with it connected but computer off and then re-boot the computer.

These things may not solve the problem but might highlight another area to check.

HTH

Grant

[Costas L]

Have been fairly successful in scanning slides. Today was my first attempt at black and white negatives. Totally non successful. Ending up with a black screen every time.
JERRY

Jerry - scanning B&W negatives should not be greatly different to scanning your slides with one major exception, other than you tell the scanner you have a negative rather than a positive. That major exception is - make sure you have digital ICE turned OFF it does not work for B&W

[JERRY]

WOW! How quickly we forget. Ok, I went back to what I thought was the procedure for scanning my slides. I guessed I'd better start there, as I have that also as an unfinished project. Since I have time on leave recovering from spinal surgery tried to remember the detailed procedure. FORGOT!!


Tried to find a post from both Wolfgang & Kev of sometime around March 10, 2006. Can't find it. HELP! Want to go back there and start again, since the negative thing appears a bit more complicated. Is that post still to be located on the forum? Can someone help me find it, or, something even more recent that gives step by step in scanning slides? I am deeply grateful for any help here

Jerry

[JERRY]

Well with some time and trial, I am back on track with scanning slides. However I am having to place the slides right on the glass as the scanner/program does not like the templates in which to allign the slides. Funny thing, I seems that I can only scan 12 at a time like 3x4 in portrait fashion. I remember some one in an earlier post talking about 20 or more. I would like to know more about that if possible. At any rate any help in the project would be appreciated.

Jerry

[JERRY]

For what its worth, from my perspective, the black plastic templates only create problems when scanning either slides or black and white negatives with my 4990 and accompanying software. Without them, scanning is a snap without a lot of tweeking and/or tuning. I got excellent slide scans and an acceptable scan of a negative. I worked all day on this project and am fairly satisfied except that in batch scans I can only line up 12 slides as mentioned in my earlier post. If any one has a work around for this I would be happy to hear about it.

Jerry

[bez]

Jerry
It's worth spending a bit of time with one (scrap) neg or slide to make sure you are scanning at the optimum height.
I suggest starting on the glass bed, then raising it with something like business cards (which are about 0.3mm thick) one at a time. You should find a sweet spot where they are at their sharpest.
Then perhaps compare this with the film holders, if you can get them to work...

[JERRY]

Bez
I worked for hours and could not even begin to recognize anything on any of my slides that I scanned using the film holder. In proceeding with my approach of putting the slides on the glass in the following fashion, I get a perfectly clear, sharply focused image that would compete with the image on the orginal slide. I ask respectfully, can you think of any reason while I should continue to spend more time trying to get the film holders to work? It appears that the original cardboard holder of the slide raises the slide sufficiently to accomplish the need for any shim.

Three columns and four rows however is all I can get. Can't figure why the preview window will not allow for more. After I scan the twelve, I go back and resize the spot to fit one slide and then scan them one after another in single fashion
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxx

Any ideas are welcome. I am open to suggestions. I have just wasted so much time trying to get the film holders to work.

Jerry

PS .. When you put the slide in the film holder, it still lays right on the glass. The film holder, only does just that ... it holds the film in the vertical...horizontal position and keeps it from moving one way or the other

[grantp]

Jerry,

I found that the slide holder worked OK but that certain slides - ie as I recall any Agfa slides in the dark blue plastic frames they used to provide - were problematic as it confused the software when it was trying to work out what was where and how many there might be to scan.

The slide guide I have has 8 positions - 2 cols and 4 rows. It does not support the slides, simply positions them so mounted slides directly on the glass, providing the film is reasonably flat, should be OK.

The mount has some marks (2 small grey/white squares on the underside) that identify the carrier, and therefore the type of job to be performed, to the scanner. The cutaway at one end of the mount needs to go at the starting end of the scan (hinged end of the unit) and the white triangle in the corner on the top side of the frame needs to be in the corner of the platten. I am assuming you know all this and just confirming that all is as it should be.

There are no marks on the underside of the 4x5 holder I have, nor the 2 1/4 film strip holder.

I have never used the 4x5. The 2 1/4 always seeme to get things wrong when set to discover the frames but was happy to be set manually.

You will be limited as to how many slides you can fit on to the glass. One of the other template provided (very thin material and outline) identifies the limits of the area scanned.

If you scan 35mm strips of film you can fit 4 cols of 6 frame strips.

Large 4x5 negatives are held up to 2 at a time. Using the holder, if possible, is probably a good idea for them to avoid interference patterns that can come into play when the negs touch glass.

HTH.

Grant

[JERRY]

Thanks Grant
That was very helpful. You hit on the solution. The two, totally unobtrusive white spots on the underside. They have to be at the top of the scanner vs where I had them at the bottom. Bingo! A perfect scan. I never saw them nor gave any thought to their significance. My slide holder can be place either direction on the glass. If there was some direction in anything I read about that, I totally missed it. So I will have to apologige to Bez and the others for disregarding their suggestion to keep trying with the slide holder.

Your film holders are different in configuration than mine ... from your description. The one commonality is that the 4x5 I have as well as the film strip holder has no undermarking. Go figure. They sure make it a lot easier than trying to fiddle arround placing them in the right position on the glass.

Well, I guess that's what these forums are for. Hat off and thanks to all for their help in getting me back on track. Started the project of scanning slides nearly a year and a half ago, and, it has taken me that long to get back to it

Jerry

[bez]

The scanner tries to recognise individual image areas when ‘Thumbnail’ is checked. I never use it in Epson Scan, but then I don’t do batch scans.
If you turn this Off and hit Preview you should get a single scan of the whole A4 area, then manually select your slides, or select one then duplicate the marquee - sounds like you’ve already discovered this.

I never used the height test I describe with the 4990 because it never occurred to me, until I replaced it with the V700, which has inbuilt adjusters. These really do make a difference, and the sweet spot is within less than 0.5mm height variation.

But if you’re happy with results so far that’s fine, I was simply suggesting they could possibly be improved on, but this depends on how you’re outputting the scans.

[grantp]

Excellent news Jerry!

I think, from what you write, that the main problem would be the scanner being unable to establish its settings - think exposure settings on a camera - because the indented part of the holder up near the scan starting point has the purpose (as I understand it) of setting up the scan in terms of brightness and light colour balance.

If the holder was the wrong way round that would the result in some very compromised settings. This applies for all the holders and the mask.

When using the reflective scanning facility (for photos and documents) fit the white insert to the top cover and make sure the narrow glass strip aat the hinge end is not obscured by anything. For reflective scanning, where the light comes from the bottom section of the scanner rather than the top section, the brightness and light colour settings are established pre-scan by the light shining through that strip and being reflected off the pad in the top section.

I think the under markings have some sort of purpose though exactly what is not clear. Both the 35mm holders (slide and negative) have the white squares. I recall reading it somewhere but can't remember where. I may also have mis-remembered of course!

Have fun.


Grant