Light image...dark print!

[Paul Warner]

Very concerned to realise that my some of my print files are printing darker than displayed/edited/prepared in Photoshop CS3. I am just about to embark on an important exhibition and find myself in a quandary and much in need of advice. My monitor is regularly calibrated, my printer is the Epson Stylus Pro 3800, and I generally print through Qimage, although I have just run print tests through Photoshop with much the same outcome.
I take enormous amount of time and trouble to prepare my black and white images for display. The problem seems to be largely in the mid to lower tone areas. Might this be a problem with gamma settings?
Basically what I need is that a file should print as it looks on screen, otherwise what`s the point of all those hours editing files?
Help....please!!!

[bez]

It could be a few things ... the simple answer (unhelpful in your case) is consistency; ie one paper, one profile, one CS3 Color Setting & Rendering Intent, one 3800 (Advanced B&W?) setting etc.
Once you have things as you like, save the settings in each application (where possible) with a suitable name. Of course you can have several 3800 global settings (eg gloss b&w; gloss colour; matt b&w ... etc)

I don’t know about Q Image, but my guess is you’re changing something between printing sessions ... easily done unless you stick to the rules

[Paul Warner]

Hi Bez. Checked everything I could think of, and the result is the same. Qimage delivers a better looking print, but I`ve known that for years. Nevertheless, it is darker than the displayed version in CS3. Perhaps the paper setting is the problem since I`ve tended to default on Epsons best quality or `premium` gloss setting. If that is the case I`m still in trouble since I know nothing about profiles. I`m still using the Innova Fibaprint white gloss you recommended some time ago, since I bought a stock of it. Which profile do you use with this, and where might I get it and install it etc?
Many thanks for your interest.

[Costas L]

The problem seems to be largely in the mid to lower tone areas. Might this be a problem with gamma settings?

Paul, how do you do your calibration and what luminosity level do you target ? It might be that your monitor is not as well calibrated as it should be for the dark tones, you can check using the link below to ensure you have a good calibration covering highlights, midtones and shadows
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfinepr ... gamma_3lvl

If your not sure what to look for, then read the guidsnce here first
http://www.normankoren.com/makingfinepr ... gammachart

[bez]

Paul
Same rules still apply – always print with exactly the same settings, particularly in Advanced B&W in the Epson panel.
Can you remember, or revert to a good global setting?

With K3 inks the profile you use makes a much bigger difference than paper brand - in other words once you find a suitable profile you can print on a wide range of similar (gloss) papers. I use a custom profile, although this shouldn’t be very different to ready-made ones.

Innova profiles here http://www.innovaart.com/en/icc-profile ... Epson.html
scroll down for 3800

It’s not quite true I know nothing about Q Image – I did try it and despite their claims and impressive demo with the 360/720 lpi test, ultimately see no difference to CS3 with real-world images.
When you say it's better, do you mean tonally? in which case I suspect it's rendering the file differently - like a 'profile'

Edit: When it comes to fine tonal judgement you can't rely on the screen, no matter how well calibrated. Test prints are the only true guide, and they don't have to be on expensive Innova Gloss!

[Paul Warner]

Hi Bev....have been trying to download Innova profiles unsuccessfully, and have just been informed by Wayne that they are sending them direct. I think that I`m maintaining the same settings. Am now wondering about the more advanced ink placement controls on the 3800. Do you know anything about them?
Qimage?.......well, I find that prints reveal more shadow detail for some reason (marginal, but definitely there). That plus being able to size to please without worrying about sharpening and interpolation.........just leave it to Q.

[Paul Warner]

As a follow up to the above, I am achieving slightly better results (i.e. better shadow detail) by adjusting the `shadow tonality` slider in ABW to 25, its maximum! Does anyone know what changing the `Maximum optical density` slider will do? Epson`s help page suggest it will adjust soft focus!!!!
I think that as monochrome is my main concern, then rather than using a profile (presumably mainly a colour thing), creating a modifying curve layer in Photoshop might be more appropriate, and applying this immediately before printing.

[bez]

Can’t understand what the problem with the profiles is – do you have trouble downloading, or installing them?
Profiles certainly affect b&w prints as well as colour, although obviously you’ll only see density and tonal differences.

I use the default settings in Advanced B&W, although for historic reasons I’m stuck with ‘Darker’ rather than the more linear, recommended ‘Dark’. In other words I adapt every new file to suit these constant settings, rather than mess about with the sliders for each image, which leads to confusion, or keeping very precise records for every image

Either of these sites should have more information about exactly what all the Advanced B&W settings do.
http://www.outbackphoto.com/printingins ... essay.html
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp ... 0/faq.html

[Paul Warner]

Hi Bez.......both. Windows consistently refuses to recognise the file type. Did manage to get one eventually, but don`t now know what to do with it to get it into the right place. There are some things to do with computers that I just don`t get, and if a file doesn`t auto locate....that`s one of `em!

[bez]

Maybe it’s zipped and you can’t open?
You’re looking for a new file (on your desk?) like a little rainbow triangle, called : Pro3800_IFA09_(Prem_Luster)_PH_BK.icc
Right click and select ‘Install’

[Paul Warner]

Bez. Found it in my documents and followed your instructions. What next, please? I assume that this is useable within ABW?
Cheers...........Paul

[bez]

I prefer to save downloads to the desktop as they’re easier to find

You apply your profiles in Photoshop ‘Printer Profile’, however it depends on how you’re using ABW whether this will have any affect - are you letting CS2 or the printer manage colours? The general recommendation with Adv.B&W is to let the printer do it (although this is not how I work, but that’s an historical accident)

As for Rendering Intent it wont make much difference if it’s Perceptual (preferred) or Relative Colorimetric, except you must make sure Black Point Compensation is ticked as this has a marked effect on the darker tones; if it’s not ticked all your darks will shift towards black.

There’s no harm in adjusting each image individually, as you’re doing, I just think this is complicated for reprints.

[Paul Warner]

Interesting, Bez, particularly the bit about black point compensation, since this isn`t showing in any window I seem able to access. I have a feeling I am doing things the wrong way round. Rather than you spending a great deal of your valuable time attempting to tutor me, for which I am grateful, believe me, can you direct me to a web page which will explain all this? The Epson `help` route seems futile!
Incidentally, today I discovered that going into the Paper Configuration section of ABW, and reducing the color density slider (the top one) to minus 5, improved the dark tone rendering yet further ( apparently the 3800 can be over generous in the amount of ink it lays down with a consequent tendency for the dark tones to block up). I am closer to screen matching than I was, but rather alarmed at what I don`t know and what seems unavailable to me.

[bez]

Paul
Black Point Compensation is a small box under Rendering Intent in CS3 print dialogue. It’s only active if Photoshop is managing colour, otherwise it’s greyed out, so if you’re using No Color Management for ABW it’s irrelevant.
I can’t remember what options are available in Q Image, but if it's there too it should be ticked.

Rather than you spending a great deal of your valuable time attempting to tutor me ...

As I never touch them you probably already know a lot more than me about all the ABW sliders and what they do

[Paul Warner]

Hi Bez....once again, very interesting! Didn`t know you could select `No Colour Management` when using ABW. I must look again.
Cheers..........Paul